Dissident, The Eternal Fool

This guy just never gives up. He just CAN NOT see that, well, kids don't want to have sex with him. He tries and tries to want to have youth groups to point to, the ones who say, YES YES CAN WE PLEASE HAVE SEX WITH UGLY OLD FAT MEN PLEASE!

Thing is, that ain't happnin. But not too many of these guys can accept this. One day, in a Kingdom, far, far away, there will be a place where young children will want to have sex with ugly old men and women! Imagine! Mushrooms and ferns and sunlight through the trees! It'll be MAGICAL, it'll be AWESOME, and we JUST. CAN'.T WAIT.

lol.

So. Here's Dissident again. I figured, since he was so polite as to reply to us, I figured we'd reply to him(well, we as in i lol).

First of all, if this is so hard for you to decipher, well, I just don't know what to say:

"all those with the need to hate something"

Something. Some ephemeral something that we just hate out loud and just blame it on you. So sad. It couldn't POSSIBLY be because we were fucked in the head by people JUST LIKE YOU. No way. Anyway.


"They refuse to acknowledge a difference between sexual activity achieved through force and coercion and that which is mutually desired by two human beings simply because some of those people are beneath a certain age."

No, see, we do. You don't. That's the problem.

"The belief is that giving them a response inadvertantly empowers them and gives them more control over our lives than they deserve."

They are right. You are wrong. However, because you insist that you're right, we win. Good fucking deal.

Because Dissident is so long winded, and because I choose to sleep, because, we'll get him soon, I'll cut this short. Please feel free to take other parts of his "infinite wisdom" apart.

"My response to AZ's backlash re: B4U-Act
Posted by Dissident on Friday, November 13 2009 at 01:29:57am
As we all expected, the last successful workshop of B4U-Act that I attended and wrote a review about on GC has resulted in a predictable and thoroughly amusing backlash from AZ, who can't stand the fact that MAA's are refusing to remain the punching bag of all those with the need to hate something, and who currently rationalize their outlet for hatred under the guise of "protecting children." The idea that we will one day live in a world where MAA's and youth sexuality are no longer hated and feared, and where the right to sexual expression isn't limited to those aged 18 or over, and where the words "abuse" and "rape" aren't distorted beyond all meaning by those who believe that only people above a certain Magic Age should be allowed to express their sexuality is abohrrent to the mindset of the modern anti. They refuse to acknowledge a difference between sexual activity achieved through force and coercion and that which is mutually desired by two human beings simply because some of those people are beneath a certain age. They insist on believing that an adult having a mere stray thought of someone under 18 being sexy and attractive is an act of pure evil that needs to be contained and denied any form of expression (and if you think I am exaggerating here, just wait until you check out some of Stiches' comments down below). I think the person from VoA who e-mailed me these quotes so that I wouldn't have to visit that website and become ill.

Okay, I am aware that some people here believe that the best type of response to the ignorant, hate-filled nonsense regularly spewed by the likes of AZ is NO RESPONSE. The belief is that giving them a response inadvertantly empowers them and gives them more control over our lives than they deserve. But I think the fact that MHP's are currently reaching out to us, recognizing our humanity, and realizing that adult attraction to those we today label minors is not some horrifically repulsive abnormality but something that deserves objective study regardless of how badly groups like AZ attempt to demonize them for doing so is a sign of progess. Those like AZ who want society to remain forever in the Dark Ages concerning youth sexuality and to continuously believe that every adult who is attracted to minors is an abominable monster who needs to be put either in jail or in an asylum for "treatment" (depending on which way the political pendulum happens to swing at any given time) is slowly but surely overreaching themselves with their attacks on free speech and on anyone who doesn't hold a viewpoint towards us and youth sexuality similar to their own. As a result of listening to some of the people in the community who believe we should give NO response to AZ over what they say about us, I avoided composing a response to them in regards to their recent maltreatment of Poisontears. However, THIS time it's a bit more personal. I think sometimes it's useful and even necessary to respond to the antis, NOT because I think that they have more power than they actually do, but because I think clearing up the record and letting the public hear our side of the story is VERY important. So this time I decided to give a response. In fact, the great success of the past few workshops of B4U-Act and the fact that more of us in the MAA community are starting to show their faces in public and the fact that more MHP's are starting to recognize our humanity and refusing to judge us as human beings simply due to our attraction base is a sign that the likes of PJ and AZ are starting to LOSE power and influence. Progress cannot be stifled, and it's been a rule of history that all minority groups eventually achieve acceptance, understanding, and emancipation despite the large number of people in society who are against change. AZ knows this at some level, and this greatly angers them. Their attempts to boycott every single company that may publish a "pro-pedophile" book or view (i.e., makes statements that do not totally demonize us or see us as something less than human or possibly even a non-politically correct view of youth sexuality) has proven mostly unsuccessful, which makes it clear that their attempts to combat the First Ammendment when it comes to those expressing views that they find offensive is also doomed to failure in the end. Pedophiles and hebephiles will NOT be legislated out of existence, no amount of demands on making an exception to the First Ammendment to censor every non-negative view ever expressed about our attraction base and/or youth sexuality will ultimately prove successful, and no attempts to ban or delegitimize art for daring to feature something as "obscene" as a nude child or teen will continue to be acceptable. A brighter and more free future for everyone is at hand, and this is something that the supporters of the current Dark Age of understanding regarding youth sexuality and adult attraction to minors sense and are growing increasingly fearful of. They live in mortal fear and anxiety over a future society where their current warped definitions of "abuse" and "rape" are no longer defined as such, and where young people are allowed to be sexual beings and adults are allowed to recognize them as such without being considered "sick" or pathological.

Now, onto my response to Stiches' comments regarding the most recent B4U-Act workshop:

1. There were no cops there yay!

Is Stiches hereby implying that there should have been cops present at a mere public discussion about pedophilia and hebephilia simply because the non-MAA's there were present to try and understand us rather than demonize us? The First Ammendment really sucks, doesn't it, Stiches? It's not enough that MAA's (and other curious folk) are currently arrested simply for looking at pictures of naked young people...you want the cops involved even for the mere discussion of the subject. Maybe that is one of the reason the antis are becoming less popular and less able to stifle progress and understanding these days...their desire for the police state mentality in controlling thought and discussion is proving to be incompatible with a society that purports to be based on principles of democracy.

2. There is a good reason not to trust counselors, if you are a pedophile. I mean, yeah, considering that they are compelled to report child abuse. The pedophiles all agree about this.

Um, the mistrust that many MAA's have towards counselors goes WELL beyond this, and if you read our posts less selectively you would understand that. What many of us are afraid of in regards to mentioning our attraction base to MHP's we may be seeing is based on our fear of being demonized by them and seen as something less than human, or for them reporting us to the police even if we are NOT involved in any illegal activity simply due to the popular prejudices against us and the constant assumption that we are inevitably going to "abuse" a minor. No one at the workshop ever suggested that the MHP's shouldn't report illegal activity, but the meeting was simply a call for MHP's who are more sensitive to the needs of MAA's who are having a difficult time living in this society due to all the hatred against us, the problems we may have with keeping a job or being on good terms with our families, having to deal with the constant stream of lies emanating from the mouths of the antis in the media telling us that we are incapable of being anything other than a bunch of child molesting monsters who ruin the lives of other people, etc. And you think it's WRONG for some MHP's to simply see us as human beings who are capable of being productive members of society? The truth is, MANY MAA's are productive members of society and live an entirely law-abiding existence despite having more and more expressions of our attraction base being criminalized by the government every single year. I'm sorry that these particular MHP's who desire understanding over hatred, knowledge over misconceptions, and who put science before popular politics are not to your liking, but a backlash like this is the case whenever those who live on mindless hatred see the objects of their scorn treated as human beings. The depictions of the Japanese people during World War 2 comes to mind here (if AZ existed back then, in the days before the term "pedophile" became widely known, I'm sure you would have spent all your free time demonizing anyone who dared suggest that any Japanese citizen of the U.S. should be released from those detention centers; the temptation to see the "enemy" as something less than human is quite strong, as all of the antis prove).

3. Still, the pedos want to talk to them in order to further their agenda, but they can't present their FULL agenda. Yet. Maybe later, maybe soon. Depends on how cooperative the MHPs are, of course.

Every minority group has to work towards their rights in steps. When the black community were finally freed from chattel slavery, they knew it would be a while before society was ready to accept them taking professional positions such as doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc. There is nothing "abnormal" about any minority group seeking full emancipation and acceptance, and if you ever bothered to study the civil rights movements of various groups in the past you would see astounding parallels between the situations of these past groups and the MAA's and youth of today. Of course, the antis deny and claim to be offended by any such comparison between other minority groups and what they went through in the past and that of MAA's and the youth community today, but the statements you make against us now are remarkably similar to those made against other minority groups in the past. And your utter refusal to accept the fact that young people under the Magic Age can possibly have a sexual side to their nature is remarkably similar to what society used to believe about women in the days prior to their suffrage.

3. Some people are able to be in the same room with pedos and not hurt them yay!

And this is a bad thing? Once again, the antis seem to display extreme opposition towards seeing MAA's as anything other than a group of demonic beings in human form who would deserve any degree of violence that might be directed against them simply for discussing their issues in public. Damn those MHP's for being understanding and civilized instead of initiating hatred and violent acts against us!

4. Counselors are ill-equipped to deal with pedophile activists. Well, yeah.

Implying that anyone who dares to sympathize with our plight in society and who seeks real knowledge rather than the constant spewing of hatred and misinformation against is a bad thing??!! It was inevitable that counselors and other people in society eventually began seeing us as a distinct minority group rather than a group of evil monsters.

5. There is hope for the future (if you want to rape children)

I am not even going to get into it again regarding your warped and utterly retarded definition of the word "rape." No MAA that I have EVER known has supported the use of force or coercion to achieve sexual activity with a younger person, and THAT is what the TRUE definition of "rape" is. None of the MHP's we were talking to even discussed lowering or abolishing the age of consent; we were simply discussing treating MAA's like human beings and offering counseling services for those of us who need to talk to someone regarding the difficulties of living as an MAA in this society. Of course, the antis see sinister implications in absolutely everything that we do, and even the mere attempt by us to be seen as human beings disturbs them. That is what bothers the antis the most about these workshops...the knowledge that not EVERY single non-MAA out there sees us as horrific monsters.


6. Smurf dancer spoke, talking about how, because he is a sex offender, he can't teach pretty little girls to dance. All the pedos frowned about that. Apparently the counselors in this meeting frowned as well.

I see your point. So the mere fact that Paul (you can't even show him the dignity of calling him by his real name) has this attraction base and dared to look at pics of little girls automatically means that he is inherently psychotic and will inevitably rape or molest any girls he happens to be teaching. And you WONDER why we oppose such warped and vicious logic?

7. More hope!

Sorry that this disturbs you, but progress for ALL minority groups has always been the law of history.

8. Dissident spent the night with Sproutinghalo. Ang got to know him very well. -wink-

Hmmm...was this perhaps a display of homophobia by Stiches? Nahhhh...

9. Eggs could be thrown at the counselors who attended the conference AS WELL AS the pedos. Especially the ones who think pedoness is perfectly okay and that children should be hurt as often as the MAAs want.

Never mind the fact that this was NOT what the workshop was about. I guess, as usual, the antis see only what they want to see and make assumptions way out of context regarding any post they see from us. And, of course, you clearly express your fears that one day the terms "harm" and "rape" and "molestation" will NOT be used in such a warped form in the future as they are today and that one day society will accept youth sexuality as much as it currently does for adults (and you can continue to deny the sexual nature of youths as much as you want, because an increasing number of young people are being arrested and put on the sex offender registry for any display of sexual behavior, including that between peers of the same age, and young teen girls are arrested and put on the sex offender registry for sending pics of themselves in their underwear over their cell phones; NOW do you see why the antis are the ones in denial rather than the MAA community?? Heaven forbid should anyone strive to stop this nonsense). And I should mention that ALL the MHP's present were VERY concerned about kids being harmed.

10. Some of the counselors thought it was fascinating.

Heaven forbid that someone should find a man my age being attracted to young teen girls as ANYTHING other than repulsive, horrifying, or pathological. We need to control such thoughts!

11. Dissident has never seen any evidence of child sexual abuse from his pedophile peers. (HHAHAHAHAHAHA!)

I would NEVER associate with anyone who would use force or coercion to gain sexual favors from people of ANY age, and I actively discourage illegal sexual behavior from all of my peers. Sorry, Stiches, but it is possible for MAA's to live inside the law regardless of their opinions of the law. And I'm also sorry to say this, but striving for change within the system is LEGAL.

12. He told these counselors this.

Um...duh!

13. They believed him. (HAHAHAHHAHA)

Considering my real life friends have known me for YEARS and YEARS and are well aware of the fact that I DO NOT engage in illegal sexual behavior, and that MAA's are fully capable of living within the law, it shouldn't surprise you that trained counselors can actually see us as something more than a group of deceptive liars. Heaven forbid!

14. They ate food together. And agreed that Oprah is EVIL.

Yup, having lunch together makes it clear that there are people capable of sitting down and breaking bread with us and seeing us as human beings. Heaven forbid! And considering the constant stream of lies that Oprah routinely spreads about us, including the glaring example I provided in my post about that alleged instruction manual for raping kids, is it any wonder that I suggest that maybe MHP's should get to know REAL MAA's and judge them on their own merits rather than listening to everything the antis say about us?

15. The pedos perved over an underaged looking food server.

Omg...heaven forbid that I should look at and admire the beauty of a young woman who was about 19-21 years of age. And heaven forbid could this woman pass for someone under the Magic Age! At my age, I should only be looking at and admiring and fantasizing about women in their 30's and 40's, right? That's all nice and "proper" according to a society with ageist prejudices and anxieties, right? I hate to break this to you, Stiches, and I'm sorry if this offends you considering your age, but many men (and women) find young women to be physically attractive. The fact that you try to demonize and even criminalize such thoughts when they are perfectly normal and natural, and have been so throughout human history, is just plain ridiculous. And you wonder why less and less people are taking you and your crew seriously? I dared to find a young woman attractive so now I'm a "perv." Nice. And btw, I was the one who pointed out to others that this young woman serving us was beautiful, there wasn't a huge "perv" session over her. And I am NOT ashamed of myself for finding young women beautiful, and you are NOT going to make me feel guilty over perfectly natural thoughts (even if said thoughts offend middle-aged women; need I remind you that there are MANY men who are attracted to middle-aged women, including many younger men, so this type of attitude is very much without merit).

16. Dissident hugged some psych major chick and it probably grossed her out. Big Time.

First of all, she wasn't a young psych major; she was a professional MHP who was in the business for a very long time and was much older than me. Oh yes, the "filthy pedophile" hugged a much older woman and (heaven forbid!) this person actually hugged me back and thought of me as a warm human being who actually had some good qualities to his character and was proud to meet me and spend several hours talking to me. And to think she could have such a warm reaction to a man who is attracted to teen girls! Ugh, the very thought of it! Let's throw eggs at her for that! She hugged a "filthy pedophile"!! She saw his humanity! Curse her in hell for that!!

17. Party party party, go to more of these if you are a pedo or a mental health professional who thinks, hey, Pedophilia is Alright By Me!

Change is also one of the rules of history, Stiches. Sorry that you can't deal with that.

I hope I didn't make this post too long, boring, or near-unreadable for you, Stiches. And I'm sorry that my refusal to be seen by society as nothing more than a child-molesting monster offends you. "


Clearly proof that he needs to be locked up. See you in the morning.

B4U-Act Workshop

So, the pedos had a meeting. And they met with some "open minded" folks down in Maryland. Hey, the pedos have their acronym: MAA, why not give mental health professions their own? MHP. So, there you go, MAAs talking to MHPs. It was GLORIOUS!

Check it out. Here's the basic rundown, according to Dissident:

1. There were no cops there yay!
2. There is a good reason not to trust counselors, if you are a pedophile. I mean, yeah, considering that they are compelled to report child abuse. The pedophiles all agree about this.
3. Still, the pedos want to talk to them in order to further their agenda, but they can't present their FULL agenda. Yet. Maybe later, maybe soon. Depends on how cooperative the MHPs are, of course.
3. Some people are able to be in the same room with pedos and not hurt them yay!
4. Counselors are ill-equipped to deal with pedophile activists. Well, yeah.
5. There is hope for the future (if you want to rape children)
6. Smurf dancer spoke, talking about how, because he is a sex offender, he can't teach pretty little girls to dance. All the pedos frowned about that. Apparently the counselors in this meeting frowned as well.
7. More hope!
8. Dissident spent the night with Sproutinghalo. Ang got to know him very well. -wink-
9. Eggs could be thrown at the counselors who attended the conference AS WELL AS the pedos. Especially the ones who think pedoness is perfectly okay and that children should be hurt as often as the MAAs want.
10. Some of the counselors thought it was fascinating.
11. Dissident has never seen any evidence of child sexual abuse from his pedophile peers. (HHAHAHAHAHAHA!)
12. He told these counselors this.
13. They believed him. (HAHAHAHHAHA)
14. They ate food together. And agreed that Oprah is EVIL.
15. The pedos perved over an underaged looking food server.
16. Dissident hugged some psych major chick and it probably grossed her out. Big Time.
17. Party party party, go to more of these if you are a pedo or a mental health professional who thinks, hey, Pedophilia is Alright By Me!

That's pretty much it. I left out some things you can come to your own conclusions about in the comments sections. Here is the post in full:

"Hey, people. Though I never announced my intentions of doing so over the board over the past few weeks, I did attend the latest B4U-Act workshop. It was an extraordinarily positive experience for me and it went beyond my expectations. It wasn't a sting operation, there were no LEO's there. I understand that many of my friends from the community did not want me to go, as many of them do not like or trust MHP's (Mental Health Professionals)...often for good reason. However, this workshop meeting made it clear that there is every reason to have hope for the future for our community. Some of them are willing to listen to us. Though it's not possible for us to hit them with our full agenda for MAA emancipation and youth liberation at this time, we are at least at the point where some of them are capable and willing to question the prevailing media-inundated dogma about our community. Every single one of the MHP's who attended were courteous and willing to discuss the topic of the workshop: stigma and demonization. I realized during this workshop that the MHP's also have stigma to overcome: the idea that they generally act as cheerleaders and supporters of the prevailing status quo above all else and that they put politics before their desire to help people. Interestingly, two of the MHP's at the workshop conceded that the average MHP is currently ill-equipped to counsel MAA's regarding their problems that stem from living in a society that is so hostile to our attraction base and filled with numerous stereotypes and misinformation about us, and that too many MHP's believe the dogma that the media spews rather than having a real understanding of us as human beings. I was greatly pleased to hear an MHP say this, and for their willingness to reach a greater understanding of us. It made me realize that there is real hope for the future, and though it may take a while for such people to become amenable to ALL of our goals and to fully accept our love as completely valid, we are beginning to make progress and slowly but surely beginning to step out of our seclusion in cyberspace and into the public arena. I am convinced that the B4U-Act workshops are worth attending and that they have the potential to make real progress for our community, one step at a time.

One of the highlights of the workshop was a very poignant and moving presentation from Paul Christiano about his personal situation following his outing by Wikisposure. All of the MHP's there were sympathetic to him, and I was pleasantly surprised to see one of the more conservative MHP's in attendance speak out on how ridiculous it was for the system and the vigilantes to treat Paul in this fashion simply for looking at pictures. This gave me even more hope that the current ignorant attitudes that society and the lawmakers have regarding this can be successfully and powerfully challenged in the future, once we take a few more steps forward. I got to know Paul as a person during the two days I was there and he is truly a warm and terrific human being who has handled great adversity with courage and dignity. In fact, Paul was my roommate in the motel we stayed at during the last night I was there, and we had a long conversation regarding our respective situations and I had a very good time doing so. It was an honor to get to spend this social time with him.

It should be noted that the MHP's who attended took nearly as much risk as the MAA's who were there, because they are risking their careers and professional reputations simply for treating us as human beings and their willingness to say that they do not think pedophilia is a sickness. And yes, many of the MHP's there were critical of the DSM and what it considers to be mental illnesses. So I DO believe that there are at least a handful (and possibly a growing number) of MHP's who are worth our respect and who are willing to engage in respectful conversation with us and to view us as a valid minority group and distinct sexual orientation rather than to see us all as criminals and/or monsters.

One of the interesting and positive moments of the workshop was when one of the MHP's there made it clear that she was fascinated and genuinely interested (as opposed to reviled) with the idea of a man my age thinking that a 14 year old girl was extremely amazing and someone that I would be interested in dating had the laws allowed it. I told her that I could go on for hours describing all the reasons that I think young teen girls are wonderful if the workshop had that time to spare, and the whole group shared a laugh. I think the fact that an MHP can show a genuine curiosity and fascination with the idea of an adult finding someone so many years younger to be attractive in all ways (not just sexually, but also emotionally, socially, etc.) to be a positive indication that in the future not everyone will see such an attraction as evil or "
sick" but genuinely intriguing.

Another highlight of the workshop was an opportunity for us to dispell some of the hysterial lies and myths spread about our community. One of the MHP's present, who has a strong desire to prevent children from being harmed, told us that she is concerned about the Internet making it easier for real predators to meet and discuss ways of abusing kids, and that as an example she has heard that there are message boards on the Web filled with child molesters who openly (and legally) discuss ways of locating and sexually abusing minors. Where have we heard this before? I told her that there are all sorts of fears expressed as rationalizations for the government curtailing freedom of expression on the Net, and that the media and talk shows spread endless lies about the "sexual predator" hysteria. I assured her that I have never seen such an open and public board of child molesters explicitely discussing places to go where minors can be kidnapped and sexually abused in all the years I have been on the Net, and that the boards I participate in have strong rules against advocating illegal behavior of any kind, and that most of the MAA's I meet there are perfectly ethical human beings who do not support abuse. I also used the example of Oprah Winfrey recently describing an alleged training manual posted online by pedophiles that supposedly instructed MAA's in explicit detail on how to sexually abuse kids as young as infants, including the use of implements such as knives inserted into bodily orifices. I assured her that in my nine years of association with the open and public MAA forums I have NEVER come across anything remotely like that, and I told her that the lies and exaggerations routinely spewed from the likes of Oprah and other influential media moguls are largely responsible for panicking the general public into extreme hatred and fear of MAA's and into supporting all sorts of draconian measures to police society towards the alleged goal of "protecting" kids. I was glad to get the opportunity to directly address the lies routinely expressed about our community by the media, and the MHP who expressed this concern was relieved to hear that the many stories of "Internet predators" was greatly exaggerated. We had a good side conversation about this after the workshop ended, and before we all parted company I shared a hug with this particular MHP. It was a hug that represented hope for the future, that one day society as a whole will embrace us as human beings. I was further convinced by this workshop (though I was always of this opinion) that those of our community with the ideology that things are NEVER going to get any better for MAA's in society are completely wrong, and I am happy to express this opinion.

The time that the MAA's and MHP's in attendance spent socializing and mingling during breaks and when we all had lunch together were wonderful moments, as the MAA's there were all openly MAA's during this socializing with Nons, and it was wonderful to be completely open about this aspect of my life without apology or regret and associating with MHP's as equals (rather than as a patient forced to undergo "treatment" by the law) with MHP's who were willing to listen to us. We all got along very well, and I openly encourage more MAA's to attend these workshops in the future since with my health problems I am not certain how many of them I can attend in the future and thereby officially represent the GL subsection of the overall MAA community (Paul and I were the only two GLer's present there; the other MAA's were BLer's). The fact that one of the young woman serving us during lunch was incredibly hot was another highlight of the experience, and I'm just glad she didn't totally distract me from the business at hand (I was on cloud nine when she smiled and said 'hi' to me).

I should also mention that this was the first time I have met any fellow MAA's in person (Eeyore, take note!). It was a terrific experience, despite the fact that I only knew three of them and I never really spoke to Paul that much on the board. We had a good time socializing and hanging out, we went out to dinner together, and it was wonderful for all of us to be ourselves during this time. I look forward to meeting other MAA's in real life in the future.

I would like to personally thank Mike Melsheimer and Richard Kramer for arranging this workshop, and I was greatly honored to meet them both and for Mike to invite me to the workshop. Considering my many rather radical views, I was honestly surprised to be invited, as I'm sure some people might question my ability to stay on topic during the workshop and not discuss matters that the public is not yet ready to engage in, and I like to think I purported myself well there. These workshops are a wonderful opportunity for all MAA's who are hoping to work towards progress outside of cyberspace (you are all free to use assumed names during the workshops), and thus far B4U-Act is the only opportunity available to us to do so. I understand how wary some of you may be for attending such workshops in the future in these paranoid times, but I would love to see more of us step out of cyberspace and into the public to engage the world at large on our issues.

Thank you again to Mike Melsheimer for inviting me to attend and for him and Richard Kramer giving me this opportunity. "